Parliamentary Speeches
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW ON ABC OFFSIDERS
16 May 2010THE HON KATE ELLIS MP
MINISTER FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION,
CHILDCARE AND YOUTH
MINISTER FOR SPORT
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW ON
ABC OFFSIDERS
Sunday 16 May 2010
E & O E PROOF ONLY
Subjects: Australia's 2018-2022 World Cup Bid; Sport Budget; Crawford Report; NRL Salary Cap Breaches; AFL Illicit Drugs Testing; Julia Gillard
BARRIE CASSIDY: And, as I said, welcome this morning, Kate Ellis, Sports Minister. Thanks for dropping by on your way home from Switzerland.
KATE ELLIS: Thanks for having me.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And we'll talk about the World Cup bid and the Budget just - in just a moment. But Roy, I called it a rare try. Rare?
ROY MASTERS: It's not a rare - no, it's unique. And it redefines what a speccy is. I mean, after that demonstration of superb skill by that Newcastle player, Uate, what will happen, it will heighten the feverish, money-is-no-object raids by AFL players - AFL ranks on the Polynesian - particularly the Polynesian-type players.
There have been tries from the kick-off before, but they've been taken right over on the sideline. This was a guy who stood about two players in from the sideline, absolutely ambushed the Roosters by running 40 metres, taking the ball on the full, beating three or four players, scoring the try and heralded in the ranks of human history.
BARRIE CASSIDY: [Laughs]
CAROLINE WILSON: But what about spots in the NRL for 100 metre runners? I see Josh Ross is trying out for the NFL. Maybe he should be sticking to the home product.
ROY MASTERS: Josh Ross - you mean&
CAROLINE WILSON: The sprinter.
ROY MASTERS: Well no. I mean, I think you're getting at that - marginally confused with Greg Inglis who's been recruited by the NFL
BARRIE CASSIDY: Yeah, more about Greg Inglis a little later on.
But, Kate Ellis, just back from Switzerland, as I said. How are we looking with the bid? What have we got going for us?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I mean, I think, the official lodgment of the bid is a huge moment for Australian sport. It shows, one, how much work has gone in back home to have a fully compliant bid.
And - but two, it's presentation and the way it was so warmly received shows that we are a very real contender in this race and that's a pretty exciting place for Australian sport to be in.
GERARD WHATELEY: Very. The international media, which will barrack for their own bids, was immediately onto the level of unity in the Australian bid. How significant was it to be able to rebuff them immediately with the memorandum of understanding you had with the other football codes?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I think, obviously, it's going to be hotly contested and our international rivals are going to play up any elements of disunity or anything that could potentially put our bid off track.
So, I mean, I think that the fact that we managed to get to a point where an MOU was signed, all of the major football codes, cricket in there as well, is hugely significant in showing that this bid obviously has the FFA behind it, has the Australian Government behind it, but has the united sporting community behind it as well. It's hugely significant.
GERARD WHATELEY: How close to a miracle was it that you got it done?
KATE ELLIS: [Laughs] Oh well, I think other people can comment on that, but&
GERARD WHATELEY: It was close.
KATE ELLIS: & we're lucky we have such reasonable leaders of Australian sport who are willing to sit down and exchange in good faith.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Eventually [laughs]. What are our strengths? What have we really got going for us?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I think that the stability of Australia, of both the democracy but the economy, is a big element internationally. But I really think that the potential growth of football in this region, in Asia and in Australia, is something that FIFA will be looking for.
They want to look to expanding their markets and we know that when you have a look at ... I mean, I visit a lot of schools around the country or junior sporting clubs. The amount of young boys and increasingly young girls you see out there with a round ball are quite phenomenal. And I think FIFA sees that, and they want to make sure ... I mean, if you're going to England you see first grade football in England almost any weekend. Bringing it to Australia can really leave a huge legacy.
GERARD WHATELEY: And England rolled out David Beckham to hand over their booklet to emphasise that football is of them, it's their society. Is it still a disadvantage to Australia that soccer is not quite of us? It's our new plaything. It's something that's ready to be embraced but the other codes are still the domestic kings here.
KATE ELLIS: I think, in some ways, that highlights our strengths as well. David Beckham is not new, and David Beckham is a superstar already, shows what household names football soccer players become in England.
And I mean, I think the fact that we have our chairman in Frank Lowy, who is also a very charismatic man, standing up and arguing about the growth of football going forward highlights that there is a lot to gain from coming to Australia.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Do we assume that England gets 2018 and Australia is really in it just for 2022?
KATE ELLIS: Oh well, you can make those assumptions. I'm absolutely not going to and I will tell you that the Football Federation are determined to get out there and push every opportunity that Australia has. And, I mean, a lot of people internationally would say that '22 is more likely than '18. They can make those judgements if they want. We'll take either and we'll absolutely be in there working hard to make sure we secure one of them.
CAROLINE WILSON: So if it is 2022, as the best hope, is it Australia versus America still? Is it still a two-horse race?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I think Qatar are certainly working very hard and are very determined in their efforts. Obviously, they've got some challenges in terms of their natural environment and in terms of their size, but they'll be out there pushing as hard as they can. And this is absolutely a contest, that between now and December 2, when the result is known, we know that there are a number of bidding nations and we're not going to write anyone off just yet.
So, the US are strong and have some support, but I wouldn't be discounting anyone at this point. We're viewing everyone as a potential threat, and we'll be out there making sure that we push our case ahead of theirs.
ROY MASTERS: Has it all come down to the fact, if we do get - are successful, that Melbourne will surrender its title as sporting capital of the known universe because Sydney will get the majority of the games simply because it's got more venues and the AFL have been absolutely obstinate in not releasing Etihad Stadium?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I can't see too many Victorians who are going to be lining up and surrendering that title any time soon. I think it does mean that we will have a lot of fun and games in discussing where the final is going to be played and, frankly, I think that's a really good problem to have. I'll be grateful for the opportunity to try and mediate between Melbourne and Sydney in that regard.
CAROLINE WILSON: But Roy is right... Roy's right. [Laughter] Melbourne has one venue and, potentially, Geelong.
KATE ELLIS: Yeah.
CAROLINE WILSON: Sydney has four.
KATE ELLIS: Yeah.
CAROLINE WILSON: So the AFL fight has obviously hurt Melbourne's ability to host many World Cup games.
KATE ELLIS: Well, obviously, there will be more venues in New South Wales, but whether or not that means the final is yet to be seen and I think that's an argument that we'll have later down the track.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay, let's talk about the Budget now. And at a time when the Government is capping spending, working towards a surplus, sport gets an increase. How did that happen?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I mean, we said when we came into government that sport had its challenges. Real challenges, both at a grassroots level, but also at a high performance level. And I think that there are a lot in the sporting community who would have liked for me to have pulled out a cheque book and sent some money off immediately.
We always said that we had a process to go through, but that we were committed to Australian sport, and we would increase funding to both community sport and elite sport over time.
I'm really glad that the Budget was that time, and we've got a record level of funding into Australian sport, the biggest increase in our history. And I think this is a really important time for sport, it shows we take it seriously.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Well, John Coates had a take on it as well during the week and I think he brings home the political reality of it all. Here he is.
[File tape played]
JOHN COATES: These aren't salaries that the Government's giving. These are amounts to enable - sufficient amounts to enable athletes to train properly, and very few of our Olympians make a living out of their sports.
I don't think, at the end of the day, that any government would like to see it - to see us going back to where we were in Montreal when you remember we got a silver and three bronze medals as - 1976. They wouldn't want that on their watch.
[End of file tape]
BARRIE CASSIDY: And that is the reality, I guess.
ROY MASTERS: You said that Australian sport faced many challenges when the Government came to power. Nonetheless, we did pretty well in Beijing, and our history of the Olympic movement has been pretty good.
You commissioned a report by Crawford and three of those four people on that report were - has close links to the AFL. It's well known that most ministers don't commission a report unless they know the result. The result by those AFL commissioners was, principally, to redirect massive amounts of money from the Olympic funding towards the grassroots. Yet that hasn't happened and are you embarrassed by it?
KATE ELLIS: Certainly not. When we released the funding on Budget night, we also released the policy directions going forward and we went through recommendation by recommendation of the so-called Crawford inquiry and have overwhelmingly supported most of those recommendations.
In terms of what Crawford and the panel were recommending, what they said is, there is a case for increased funding in Australian sport, and that if it was going to be directed to high-performance sport then there needed to be agreed targets. We need to talk about why we're funding this, what we hope to get out of it going forward but also that there is a strong case for increased funding for participation.
Now, we're funding both and we are putting in place agreed targets. For the first time, we'll be working with the state and territory governments to have a framework and a set of guiding principles on what we hope to achieve out of sport.
But this is about a new direction. We're putting $18 million into increasing participation, into strengthening the sporting sector overall, and into supporting sport in schools. Because your question about how can we increase funding in such a tight Budget, which wasn't exactly your question, but along those lines, the answer is, this isn't just about preventing a disastrous Olympics. This is about the health of the nation as well and we need to start using sport overall to achieve those objectives, which we'll be doing with this new policy direction.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Was the Crawford group stacked with AFL people and is there any reflection of that in the way the money was distributed?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I don't believe that they were. I stand by the appointment of the panel and the credentials of that panel. I note that, when they were first announced, they were universally welcomed as people who had great backgrounds and great contributions to make and I believe they did that. I think they provided invaluable input into our policy - our policy work, as did a number of other submissions and a number of other organisations.
ROY MASTERS: Nevertheless - nevertheless, the recommendation of the Crawford report with respect to the Active After-Schools program, which is $120 million over three years, a significant amount of money, was a precise replica of the AFL submission?
KATE ELLIS: Well, no. The recommendation of Crawford around Active After-schools was that we review the way that the program's run, that we recognise that it is beneficial to have programs in place to increase children's participation in physical activity, but we have a look at how that is best delivered. That's what we're doing at the moment&
ROY MASTERS: And the best recommendation of how it's best delivered was the&
KATE ELLIS: Well&
ROY MASTERS: The AFL's recommendation.
KATE ELLIS: Well, they actually said that we should look at it being delivered through other parts of government or through other organisations outside of government. But that was part of an overall larger recommendation about splitting service delivery from the Australian Sports Commission, and&
ROY MASTERS: Which didn't happen. I mean&
KATE ELLIS: Which didn't happen, which was the recommendation&
ROY MASTERS: Yeah.
KATE ELLIS: & which sport overwhelmingly rejected.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay, the big development this week in sport was the four independent commissioners of Melbourne Storm will be taking legal action against News Limited over Storm losing their premierships and all of their points this year. Rob Moodie, the chairman, had this to say.
[File tape played]
ROB MOODIE: The NRL's decision-making process was not fair, impartial or transparent. The NRL did not provide the club with the opportunity to obtain independent legal advice before imposing penalties, or to argue about the appropriateness of the penalties that should be imposed.
Our players, our members, our supporters, the Victorian public have said again and again, there are literally hundreds and hundreds of emails that they think this hasn't happened. As directors, it's our obligation to make sure their voices are heard.
[End of file tape]
BARRIE CASSIDY: So Roy, what happens now, where do you think it'll go?
ROY MASTERS: I think it'll go to mediation. I'm sure that's the Storm's ultimate objective. They se& accept the fact that they must have suffi& significant punishment for what's happened, as far as having been deprived of accumulating any points in 2010, but they want those two premierships back.
CAROLINE WILSON: It's a total and very public back flip by Rob Moodie, isn't it?
ROY MASTERS: Well, I don't think so. I think he&
CAROLINE WILSON: Well, it is.
ROY MASTERS: & was ambushed a little bit. The speed with which they rushed to judgement&
CAROLINE WILSON: He put his hands up and said, we accept it. We - everything they are doing to us is right, and now he's saying the exact opposite.
I don't deny he has the right to do that, but it's embarrassing.
ROY MASTERS: Well, it's a little bit like being pulled up by a policeman for a speeding offence and then you suddenly accept it and then think about it a little bit later. And this isn't just a speeding offence, this is manslaughter versus murder. I mean, it is a massive penalty against the club.
CAROLINE WILSON: The process, as we've said several times on this program was very weird. The punishment was laid down in its entirety before the magnitude of the crime was known or had been fully investigated.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Gerard.
GERARD WHATELEY: So they're not cheats any more, Roy?
ROY MASTERS: Of course they're cheats, of course they have cheated on the sal&
GERARD WHATELEY: How could they have their premierships reinstated after the NRL&
ROY MASTERS: Well, let's go back to the 2007 one&
GERARD WHATELEY: & took the hard decision to strip them - hardest possible decision&
ROY MASTERS: Oh&
GERARD WHATELEY: & was to strip them of their premierships and their three minor premierships. That wasn't the one to shut down the headlines. That was the one that would leave a permanent stain on the game. Now, having done that, why would they renege on it?
ROY MASTERS: Well, because that it's highly likely that over the next month or so, we might be depriving all of the 21st century, of all of the premierships, because I'm convinced that there will be evidence that will come forward to demonstrate that other clubs&
BARRIE CASSIDY: Well, take 2002, for example, with the Roosters, now there was a salary cap breach there; you've reported on that. Was that of the same magnitude as the 2007 cal& salary cap breach for Storm?
ROY MASTERS: Based on the evidence that was put forward at the meeting up in Sydney when the sanctions were handed down, the answer is yes. Now, it is possible, as a result of further forensic accounting, they find that the breach was greater than the reported one up in Sydney, and there might be more. But, at this stage, it's the same, it's about 200 grand, 150 grand.
BARRIE CASSIDY: And then you've got money paid to the Broncos' coach, Wayne Bennett&
ROY MASTERS: Well, the co&
BARRIE CASSIDY: & beyond the normal salary.
ROY MASTERS: Coaches' incomes are outside of the salary cap, but there is a guy going up before the courts, one of Australia's richest men, the coal mining magnate, Don Talbot - Ken Talbot - and he will be giving evidence in a case against the Queensland - former Queensland minister, Gordon Nuttall, of bribery. He will be giving evidence in that court case about the amount of money that he gave the Brisbane thoroughbreds, which is a group of business - Brisbane businessmen who backed the team.
Now, it could well be that there'll be evidence in that case. And let's not forget that the Broncos was the team that beat the Storm in 2 2006.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Kate Ellis, do you stay out of this, as the - is this a matter for News Limited, the NRL and the rest of the Melbourne Storm to sort out?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I'm certainly not going to jump in the middle of a legal drama. But, at the same time, I think that everybody has said that this is cheating, and I support the NRL in taking tough action to make sure that we demonstrate that it won't be accepted anywhere in Australian sport. And&
CAROLINE WILSON: I think the Victorian Government wouldn't have exactly said that. I mean, they've been very much in favour - come out in support of the Melbourne Storm. They haven't denied they've cheated the salary cap. They believe the penalties are too harsh.
KATE ELLIS: Well, I think that there is always going to be debate about the penalties. And, obviously, I mean, it is controversial and it is really serious to strip a club of their premierships. And my personal view is, I support the NRL in taking really strong action. And we've got to make sure that people - Australian sports lovers, when they rock up on the weekends to go and support their team and support their competition, that they can have faith in the integrity of that competition. I think that's what needs to be protected here.
CAROLINE WILSON: Are you concerned about the role of News Limited in all this mess, because now we've got independent board members, News Limited board members in dispute. They own the comp& they own the club, they own some of the competition. It's a terrible conflict.
BARRIE CASSIDY: You wouldn't have said that - the action is not against New Limited, but it is against the NRL and the NRL is half-owned by News Limited.
CAROLINE WILSON: Yeah.
KATE ELLIS: Well, I think everybody - News Limited included - have come forward and said that this is not the ideal set of arrangements and that nobody looking at setting up governance of a sport would replicate what is currently in place there, and which they are working on changing going forward and coming up with a more sensible set of arrangements, which I think everybody would support.
GERARD WHATELEY: If David Gallop's punishments got rolled, Roy, where would it leave him?
ROY MASTERS: Well, there'd be a new independent commission that will come in towards the end of the year. And I would - David Gallop is already scheduled to be the chief executive of that new, independent commission.
If, on the other hand, this all goes to court, before the Victorian Supreme Court and the Vic& and an eminent jurist decides that the NRL have erred significantly, then he would be in trouble.
But, at the moment, because of the enormous conflict of - that News Limited have, he's been placed in an incredibly invidious position.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay I want to move on to another issue now in the AFL and that is drugs in sport. We're talking here about recreational drugs not the performance-enhancing. But the report from the AFL this week showed that 10 players are on two strikes. They're not named and shamed in the way that the $5 punter was just a couple of weeks ago but Kate Ellis they seem to be rather self-satisfied about what they're doing in this regard, are you satisfied that the - that right across the codes that they're doing enough on this?
KATE ELLIS: Well I mean I think we should point out that the AFL have been doing more testing than ever before and have fewer positives - positive tests coming back than ever before and that is a very good thing.
CAROLINE WILSON: Was it Federal Government intervention that stopped them from capping - my understanding was the tests were going to be capped at around 1400 after last year, well above that this year. Was that your suggestion that they do more tests?
KATE ELLIS: Well&we've obviously always been in discussion with the AFL and other sports about illicit drugs in sport, and they are well aware of our passionate view that we need to be taking every measure we can. But the AFL should have the credit themselves for increasing their testing and for funding the increased testing - tests within their sport.
And I mean it is a controversial drugs policy. Every year when these results come out we have the same discussion about two strikes versus three strikes. I think what we should all be noting is that there is more testing going on and fewer positive results and that is a very good - that is a very good thing.
BARRIE CASSIDY: Now, you're an Adelaide Crows supporter, of course; Julia Gillard, the Deputy Prime Minister, is a Western Bulldogs supporter. You talk - you ever talk about football? Is Julia Gillard really that interested or is it&
KATE ELLIS: Oh I think she's absolutely interested and I mean it's not that we spend all of our time in the corridors of Parliament House talking about football but there are some very, very passionate AFL supporters within the Government and it means that it's a pretty difficult year for me at the moment, come on Crows.
BARRIE CASSIDY: She gave an interview last night on Before the Game on Network Ten. We ran part of it, the politics on Insiders now we'll have a look at the sport on Offsiders, Here it is.
[Excerpt of Julia Gillard interview]
REPORTER: Why do you follow the Western Bulldogs?
JULIAN GILLARD: Well I grew up in South Australia before there was AFL, so I didn't grow up barracking for the Bulldogs. But I moved to Melbourne, worked for Slater and Gordon and Peter Gordon was there leading the Footscray fight-back so he wrote it into all of our employment contracts we had to barrack for the Bulldogs.
[Laughter]
REPORTER: Oh there you go, well done Julia. Julia who's your favourite player at the Bulldogs?
JULIA GILLARD: Oh, I've definitely got to say Jason Akermanis, he provides me with a bit of political advice from time to time.
[Laughter]
JULIA GILALRD: He sends me, you know, the perceptive text to tell me what to do.
[End of excerpt]
BARRIE CASSIDY: She handled that all right.
CAROLINE WILSON: Clearly, a late life AFL supporter, happened later in her life.
The anti-syphoning decision, we were told this was going to be delivered by Senator Conroy in December, then February, then March. The networks all tell me that the real bargaining and the real talks can't begin on the next AFL round of media rights until we know whether Fox Sports or Foxtel's going to be allowed to bid on their own and how many games they're going to get. What's the hold up?
KATE ELLIS: Well, I mean, obviously, this is something which Senator Conroy is working very hard on and in consultations with a range of stakeholders with very different views on the way forward and we want to get it right frankly.
This is never easy and it's about balancing the rights of the sports versus sports lovers and - around the country and making sure that they have fair access and Senator Conroy is going to absolutely work with all of those stakeholders to make sure that we get the best outcome for everybody.
CAROLINE WILSON: So what - is it&
BARRIE CASSIDY: Okay we - sorry Caro, we have to move on, we've got a lot to cover&
CAROLINE WILSON: Sorry Barrie.
BARRIE CASSIDY: &but Kate Ellis we do appreciate you coming in. Thank you very much.
KATE ELLIS: Thanks for having me.
[Ends].
Minister Ellis Media Contact: Jamila Rizvi 0438 644 603